Training Committee

Meeting Minutes



Attendees:  Deb Fleming, Mark Jones,  Mike Ellsworth, Russ Babiak, Mark Cantrell, Marie Bates, Craig Cook, Paul Hannemann,(phone), Brit Rosso (phone), Jon Kessler (guest), Mark Koontz (Presenter)


Absent: Jill McCurdy, Jim Shultz, Chris Wilcox, Renee Beams, Mike Peitz


Action Log (Ellsworth/Bates)

The Action Log was reviewed and updated.


NFR NIMS – Featured Monthly Meeting Topic (Koontz)

NRF NIMS is one of the groups the Training Committee (TC) the committee feels they need to stay connected with.


The NFR NIMS Committee has been reviewing the ICS forms to determine whether to use the FEMA forms or if a wildland fire (WF) specific form will be needed. The following forms have been identified as needing to be WF specific:


ICS 204 WF, Assignment List

ICS 206 WF, Medical Plan

ICS 209 WF, Incident Status Summary

ICS 212 WF, Incident Demobilization Vehicle Safety Inspection  

ICS 219-9 WF, Accountable Property Transfer

ICS 219-9A WF, Tag, Accountable Property Transfer

ICS 224 WF, Crew Performance Rating

ICS 225 WF, Incident Performance Rating 


Recommendations and a transition plan will be presented to the NWCG Executive Board for approval. The proposed changes have been communicated to the e-ISuite group. The committee is putting together a transition plan with the cache on which forms to use in the interim and which forms will be stocked for ordering and available in the kits. The goal is to make all the forms accessible on one website and to communicate to the field that the identified website is the authoritative data source for NWCG accepted forms for use on an incident. The task group is proposing that stewardship of all ICS forms be given to the NFR NIMS Committee as a version control mechanism.


NFR NIMS Committee is working with FEMA on endorsements (positions, qualifications and training). FEMA has asked Tony Doty and Jason Stienmetz to lead the effort and put a proposal together within the next 90 days.


FEMA Update (Fleming)

Current areas of focus:

  • Instructor Qualifications Briefing Paper – proposal for a dual path for getting instructors qualified. Aitor Bidaburu will be the Executive Board contact for this effort. Next steps are to determine who the decision makers are at FEMA/EMI and begin discussions with them.


  • Draft Memo of Expectations between EMI and NWCG –draft memo was reviewed and approved by the Executive Board. Waiting for EMI to finalize their memo before proceeding.


  • Instructor Historical Recognition – a few issues have surfaced; Kessler is working clarifying issues and getting them cleaned up. Specifically the Incident Commander course has caused some confusion and may need additional clarification.


Fleming asked the TC if they would like to be more involved in this effort. They agreed that unless things get more complicated, there was no need to involve anybody else at this point.


S-420 Follow-up (Ellsworth)

This topic was a continued discussion from the last meeting on the S-420 proposal to look at making the course recommended, not required. 


Hannemann presented a summary of what was discussed during a meeting he attended last week with the National Association of State Foresters. The State Foresters have some issues with it not being required. They feel some type of team training for folks prior to going to S-520 is needed; they don’t want to see it become recommended until something else is in place.


Other alternatives may need to be considered such as the FEMA course (305), leadership curriculum, etc.  The TC will continue to look at alternatives and look at what we really need with continue to keep a consistent team training component.


It was decided to put this topic on hold and to try and schedule a longer face to face meeting in March to discuss further. Ellsworth will get back to the group on ideas and timeframes.


NWCG Committees and Training Development (Babiak)

There is a need to identify criteria, expectations, oversight, etc. for steering committees. Currently they are primarily ad hoc. The TC needs to look at the bigger picture and ensure the way courses are prioritized for revision, maintained and managed is clear and documented for the entire curriculum. 


May Agenda Item: Spend half a day discussing and documenting how courses are prioritized for revision, maintained, and managed (NAFRI courses, Training Branch courses, and other Committee courses). Develop the criteria for steering committees and discuss who they will be chartered under. Ensure processes are clear and communicated.


Process for Independent Action for Course Development (Ellsworth)

How do we deal with a group externally revising a course outside the current processes?  Ideally these efforts should be coordinated before they begin to ensure the TC has an opportunity to consider them as part of the overall curriculum maintenance priorities and coordinate them with other ongoing efforts. Some sort of feedback or request for change form may need to be implemented. With NWCG positions shrinking, setting and communicating priorities becomes more important. This issue is part of the overall program of work discussion and should be part of the May discussion on the above topic.


EIM Update (Fleming)

Deb will be taking over for Pam Ensley as the co-chair of the Pathways Work Unit.  Getting current Type 2 qualified individuals to the Type 1 level is the short term issue. Then there is the longer term issue of developing the learning paths for getting folks from the Extended Attack to the Complex level. Putting a task team together to develop options for the learning paths is being discussed.


Action: Send information developed by OWDC on the options for getting Type 2 qualified individuals to the Type 1 (complex) level to the TC for feedback. (Fleming dd: 2/21/14)


Training Updates – (All)

  • Leadership Subcommittee – (Ellsworth for Wilcox)
  • Will meet in San Diego the first week in May to finalize the San Diego Mega Fire Staff Ride.
  • Paul Hohn (BLM in WY) will replace Mike as the BLM subcommittee rep.


  • Geographic Area Training Representatives (Beams)
  • Working on a priority form for the 2014 fire season.
  • Had a conference call to talk about the National Engine Academy that they are trying to build.


  • National Advanced Fire and Resource Institute (Rosso for Peitz)
  • The certificate of candidates for the NAFRI Director position has been issued.
  • Current courses going on are S-580, S-520, S-620.


  • Lessons Learned Center (Rosso)
    • Dave Christensen retired.  Discussing how to manage the workload with one less person.
    • Working with folks on Yarnell information.
    • Will be in Boise next week for the NWCG All Chairs meeting.
    • Continuing to work on beta test website for continuous improvement.
    • Working on the 2013 Annual Incident Summary which will be out in the next few weeks.


Future Conference Calls/Meetings – (Ellsworth)

Next meeting is scheduled for March 4, 1300-1500. We may need to move the meeting to some other day in March due to other TC member commitments. Ellsworth and Fleming will work together to set a date.


Joint meeting with the GATRs will be May 6-8, 2014 in Boise.



OWDC Meeting Minutes

Date/Time:     February 4, 2014 @ 0900 Mountain


Standing Agenda Items

  • Action Log Review: Fleming

Reviewed & updated; see Current Action Log for details.


  • EIM: Jones

Evans is looking for a representative to take over the single Qualifications Work Unit. Don Johnson volunteered. There will be an EIM conference call later today. Deb will be replacing Pam as the co-lead for Pathways Work Unit.


Action Item: Relay to Evans Kuo that Don Johnson will take the lead on the Single Qualifications Work Unit. (Jones dd: 2/7/14)


  • ICS Forms: Koontz

NRF NIMS has the lead on forms now. Recommendations have been pushed up to the Executive Board for decision.


  • Type 2IA-Type 2 Crew Analysis: Romero

Task team has been meeting and continues to move forward. Report out at March meeting.


  • Sawyer Qualifications: Romero

There will be a revised RFC coming to OWCD for the March meeting. Ted Mason will call in to present the request.


New Agenda Items

  • Extended Attack Qualifications as it Relates to EIM: Conn

Kevin sent out the draft and requested feedback from OWDC. He gave a summary of the feedback he has received to date.


Resolution on the Logistics Branch Director positions (inclusion or exclusion) and the future of the ICT5 position still need to be reached. OWDC has not reached resolution on the Logistics Branch Director positions. This will require additional discussion and will be a March agenda topic.


ICT5 is required for a T2 IA crews. There may need to be a placeholder (leave in qualifications when it is presented to the Executive Board) for now and the discussion will need to continue.


A package to present to the Executive Board in February is the desired end state.


Decision: OWDC accepted the PMS 310-1 as it currently stands including a placeholder for ICT5.


  • Incident Business IBA1/IBA2 Positions: Arnberger

IBC met last week and they are in agreement that the IBA1 and IBA2 should be combined into one position. They think requiring ICS-400 is overkill for this level. They also are trying to figure out how to ensure that IBAs stay current when they may not go out very often and things change frequently in that world. They are reviewing options and will create a RFC for OWDC with their recommendations.


  • PMS 210 Wildland Fire Incident Mgmt Field Guide: Arnberger

The size of the PMS 210 has been an issue between the cache and the field. Shipments are being returned because people don’t understand what they are ordering. Agency reps should send reminders out to the field as appropriate.


  • Expanded Dispatch Recorder RFC: Jones

Communication channels are unclear since the dispatch community isn’t represented under NWCG. Mark is suggesting their requests need to come through an agency to the Training Committee or to the OWDC.


There have also been issues with the dispatch community updating the D-110 course without any knowledge from Training Development or the Training Committee.


OWDC does not support the RFC as originally written. Several members could live with the ‘OR’ language, but this may set a prescient that we are not prepared to deal with and is a move away from a performance based system.


Decision: OWDC does not approve the EDRC RFC as originally written or as proposed with the ‘OR’ option for the PTB or training. The PTB will remain required.


Action Item: Respond to the EDRC RFC with OWDC’s decision. Get back with Suzie (dispatch) on future requests coming through an agency to the Training Committee or OWDC. (Jones dd: 3/6/2014)


  • MyFire Community: Jones

Files are being loaded. Everyone needs to log in and ensure appropriate historical information has been captured. Nicole will pass off what she has to Kelin.


  • FEMA Qualifications and Typing: Doty

FEMA (Tim Manning) has agreed the PMS 310-1 qualifications should be used as the basis for all disciplines. A group has been formed including Tony Doty, Jason Steinmetz & Vince Mazzier; they have broken out the PMS 310-1 into the FEMA 509 forms. 30 of the 58 positions have been de-smoked (primarily removing the other training component). The other positions will take a bit more discussion (aviation, operations and C&GS); they are using the DOI quals to assist in determining these baseline qualifications.


Change in typing for incident complexity and resource capability:

The current proposal on the table at FEMA is going to three types for incident complexity – Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3. Type 1 would mean combining our current Type 1 and 2. Current Type 3 would move to Type 2 using the Type 3 definition. Current Type 4 would become Type 3 using the current IA definitions.


With capability typing FEMA is looking at moving to three types as well. Type 1 = complex; Type 2 = extended attack; Type 3 = initial attack. Type 2 and Type 5 definitions would be retired. There was discussion of retaining the Type 4 which would be the very basic, normal job duties. The current Type 5 typing used in wildland fire needs further discussion.


OWDC supports the proposal; Tony will keep the group apprised as things unfold.


  • Endorsements and Related Terms: Doty

Event ‘kind’ = fire; ‘category’ = vehicle fire, prescribed fire, severe weather, etc.

What is a discipline? Who has oversight for each discipline? There are some disciplines such as fire that are easily defined and easy to identify oversight of; others are not so clean.


The conversation with FEMA regarding endorsements has been restarted. Tony read a draft definition for endorsement that he has developed. The baseline qualifications are discipline neutral. Anything above and beyond would be the endorsement piece for a specific discipline. NWCG needs to develop a framework for how we would support the endorsements. Things are moving fast on the FEMA side.


The PPT that was developed regarding the above information was distributed to the OWDC.


  • Request for Change Form Revision: Jones

Edit to RFC was sent to OWDC.


Decision: OWDC agreed to update the RFC form to ensure training is considered.


Action Item: Finalize RFC form and instructions. Send to Tammy Denney to update on website. (Jones/Hallisey/Staats dd: 3/6/2014)


Next Meeting Date/Time

OWDC Conference Calls are every second Wednesday of the month at 0900 Mountain     


Future Meetings

Hosted by FWS – Kevin Conn

Date: March 4-6, 2014 0800-1700 MST

Location: Boise, ID

Address: Office of Air Craft Services (OAS)

300 E. Mallard Dr., Ste 200

Boise ID 83706-3991


Roll Call

OWDC Members




Mark Jones (Chair), BLM


Deb Fleming, NWCG Training Branch, BLM


Nicole Hallisey transitioning with Kelin Staats (Logistics), BLM


Tony Doty , DOI, OEM


Jeff Arnberger, BLM


Brad Gibbs, NIAC, BLM


William Martin, USFA


Marley Marshall, IQCS, BLM


Bill Van Bruggen, USFS


Rob Lehmann, IQS, NASF


Kevin Conn, FWS


Tim Blake, NWCG Preparedness Branch Cord.


Don Johnson, NASF


Evans Kuo, EIM Pathways


Dalan Romero, BIA


Guest to Call:                                                        Mike Ellsworth (Training Committee)


Mark Koontz, NPS




Ron Stoffel, NASF



Buck Kline, NASF




Parent Committee: 
Incident and Position Standards Committee
Tuesday, February 4, 2014
Meeting Type: